PSA - MS3B and Our Creations
Feb. 27th, 2011 06:36 pm![[personal profile]](../s.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
aikea_guinea posting in ![[community profile]](../s.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
club_crimsynThis is a bit of a PSA just to let everyone know that we’ve asked that our creations no longer be posted to My Sims 3 Blog. This is something we’ve been mulling over for several months now, and have finally decided we’ve had enough of the douchebaggery that goes on in the comments over there. It’s not so much things said about our creations (gelydh never reads the comments on our stuff, and I only very rarely), but more about what goes on in other people’s uploads. We don’t want our creations associated with that sort of environment.
People who create CC are not slaves. We all may have very different motivations for what we do, but none of us owe anything to downloaders. Quite frankly, we're disgusted by how many (not all, but many) TS3 players treat CC creators. The amount of entitlement is beyond anything we saw for TS2. It’s one thing to expect perfection from something you’re paying for, but being nitpicky assholes about free items is appallingly rude. It’s ok to say things like ‘These are pretty nice, but they’d be even better if you added some ground shadows to them.’ The person who made the ground-shadowless thing doesn’t have to do anything to their creations, but I promise you they’ll be much more likely to take your suggestion seriously if you’re not a complete fuckwit about it.
What we've seen with the release of TS3 is no-one being safe from over-the-top criticism, regardless of whether or not they charged for their creations or gave them away for free or, as is the case with Club Crimsyn, paying half out of our own pocket for the upkeep of the site - we actually lose money and haven't cared up to this point! I'm not sure just how much longer we're willing to put up with this shit. Even at TSR we could post things and get genuine feedback without having to worry about it being torn to shreds just because someone felt like being a dick that day. We aren't in any way, shape, or form advocating paysites or TSR; it just really says something when we realize that free TS3 creators are being treated far worse than pay TS2 creators ever were.
Do the people who say shit about creations because they’re bored realize the potential consequences of what they’re doing? We’ve seen more than one creator quit because of the idiocy displayed recently. Helaene, one of our favorite creators from the very earliest days of TS2, recently stopped uploading because of trolls on her site. Quite frankly, we can’t really blame her. There’s been more than one occasion where we’ve found ourselves wondering what the point of uploading anything was because it was just being nitpicked to death, and we were used to that sort of thing from when we were paid creators on TSR.
We make custom content for TS3 because we feel like things are lacking in our own games. We think, 'We could really use some new hair textures/female clothes/rabid squirrels,' and we proceed to make said thing. If we don't like how said thing is turning out, we give up and wander off to attempt to make another thing. Eventually, we do manage to finish something, and we may or may not get a weird tickle in our brains that says 'Maybe someone else would like to have this,' and if Finished Thing isn't missing any major parts, we'll toss it on here for other people to use if they want.
This may come as a surprise, but we honestly don't care one bit if you use something we make or not. Chances are, we won't ever see your game, so we flat out won't know one way or the other. Therefore, saying something like 'If you did X to this, I'd download it' is pretty pointless. Again, constructive feedback is fine, and appreciated, but even then we won't necessarily do anything more to an item once it's finished. People are always welcome to do whatever they want to things we upload (aside from the obvious no paysites thing, and no claiming you did something we did), so feel free to have at it. You can do X to thing Y til your eyes bleed if it'll make you happy.
We’re always glad when people appreciate the things we upload, and a simple 'thanks' goes a very long way in making us want to continue sharing stuff. This may sound like it contradicts the above paragraph, but even though we don't care if you don't download something we make, it's still nice to know when it's appreciated.
In closing, I was just shown this Dilbert, which seems fitting, so I now share it with you:
(Note the date. You’re not doing anything even remotely new or original.)
I realize how pointless this all is, but damn it, I’m posting it anyway even though I know it won’t change a damned thing. I’m OK with that. Because fuck you, that’s why.
gelydh never reads the comments on our stuff, and I only very rarely), but more about what goes on in other people’s uploads. We don’t want our creations associated with that sort of environment.People who create CC are not slaves. We all may have very different motivations for what we do, but none of us owe anything to downloaders. Quite frankly, we're disgusted by how many (not all, but many) TS3 players treat CC creators. The amount of entitlement is beyond anything we saw for TS2. It’s one thing to expect perfection from something you’re paying for, but being nitpicky assholes about free items is appallingly rude. It’s ok to say things like ‘These are pretty nice, but they’d be even better if you added some ground shadows to them.’ The person who made the ground-shadowless thing doesn’t have to do anything to their creations, but I promise you they’ll be much more likely to take your suggestion seriously if you’re not a complete fuckwit about it.
What we've seen with the release of TS3 is no-one being safe from over-the-top criticism, regardless of whether or not they charged for their creations or gave them away for free or, as is the case with Club Crimsyn, paying half out of our own pocket for the upkeep of the site - we actually lose money and haven't cared up to this point! I'm not sure just how much longer we're willing to put up with this shit. Even at TSR we could post things and get genuine feedback without having to worry about it being torn to shreds just because someone felt like being a dick that day. We aren't in any way, shape, or form advocating paysites or TSR; it just really says something when we realize that free TS3 creators are being treated far worse than pay TS2 creators ever were.
Do the people who say shit about creations because they’re bored realize the potential consequences of what they’re doing? We’ve seen more than one creator quit because of the idiocy displayed recently. Helaene, one of our favorite creators from the very earliest days of TS2, recently stopped uploading because of trolls on her site. Quite frankly, we can’t really blame her. There’s been more than one occasion where we’ve found ourselves wondering what the point of uploading anything was because it was just being nitpicked to death, and we were used to that sort of thing from when we were paid creators on TSR.
We make custom content for TS3 because we feel like things are lacking in our own games. We think, 'We could really use some new hair textures/female clothes/rabid squirrels,' and we proceed to make said thing. If we don't like how said thing is turning out, we give up and wander off to attempt to make another thing. Eventually, we do manage to finish something, and we may or may not get a weird tickle in our brains that says 'Maybe someone else would like to have this,' and if Finished Thing isn't missing any major parts, we'll toss it on here for other people to use if they want.
This may come as a surprise, but we honestly don't care one bit if you use something we make or not. Chances are, we won't ever see your game, so we flat out won't know one way or the other. Therefore, saying something like 'If you did X to this, I'd download it' is pretty pointless. Again, constructive feedback is fine, and appreciated, but even then we won't necessarily do anything more to an item once it's finished. People are always welcome to do whatever they want to things we upload (aside from the obvious no paysites thing, and no claiming you did something we did), so feel free to have at it. You can do X to thing Y til your eyes bleed if it'll make you happy.
We’re always glad when people appreciate the things we upload, and a simple 'thanks' goes a very long way in making us want to continue sharing stuff. This may sound like it contradicts the above paragraph, but even though we don't care if you don't download something we make, it's still nice to know when it's appreciated.
In closing, I was just shown this Dilbert, which seems fitting, so I now share it with you:
(Note the date. You’re not doing anything even remotely new or original.)
I realize how pointless this all is, but damn it, I’m posting it anyway even though I know it won’t change a damned thing. I’m OK with that. Because fuck you, that’s why.
no subject
Date: 2011-03-01 03:57 am (UTC)I've been a long time fan of you two, even back in the days I was downloading your stuff from the booty. Your creations are always so full of awesome.
And now you write this. My respect has grown even greater for you two. God bless the both of you.
no subject
Date: 2011-03-01 05:41 am (UTC)If it didn't have shadows, my sims game went shadow-free. If it blurred out the walls, I didn't care, I smiled with glee. If it made my game CRASH, I looked for ways to delete all other modded content except yours you see. Your site is on the favorites list, and your site (and lemonleaf, mastercontroller and subaxi) is the only one to remain there permanently.
no subject
Date: 2011-03-01 04:24 pm (UTC)I seriously love your stuff, the whole style, the way it's presented, you're quite obviously gorgeous artists/creators, but you're also quite unique, which for a reason I can't really understand seems to be ... making people with weak minds loose their ability to think properly? I dunno? There are plenty of people appreciating your sharing, plenty of people with common sense, but I guess you can't ever get rid of all the idiocy out there. Just don't let yourself be annoyed by those [-insertfavouriteinsulthere-] who have obviously nothing better to do with their lives. They're just desperate.
Some (and not small) party of the whole TS3-community makes me sometimes sit in awe in front of my PC ... this is a game, people play it, to enjoy themselves ... sometimes someone would do something he'd like showing or even sharing. That's. All. Making this a business just does something kinda wrong to the game and it's players.
Please don't do it like helaene, I really liked her stuff and was really pissed myself when some idiots flamed her enough to drive her off sharing. It was simply a damn shame.
You kick ass, way more than any troll in the world.
no subject
Date: 2011-03-01 05:25 pm (UTC)I just wanna say I love your creations on here...it feels like christmas everytime ya'll come out with something! :)
I'd also like to say that I agree with what you've said in this post.It's downright shitty of what these trolls say about peoples creations or recolors...especially beginners...I was one of them, quitting did cross my mind but...sorry I'm not a quitter especially when I'm doing something that I really love...I thought those trolls can just fuckoff for all I care and I will continue on doing what I'm doing wether someone lkes it or not. I feel for RD cause she's had a hard time with this and she makes Awesome stuff!
I hate how these titty babie keep bitching....I've never in the several years that I've been on a computer have seen such a troll infested place like MS3B...I don't hate Joe or Brandon...but if I had a site like that...I would not tolerate it!
Thanks again for posting this,it feels Great when you have someone on your side lol.And Thanks so much for your Amazing creations and letting us recolor them!
no subject
Date: 2011-03-01 11:17 pm (UTC)Personally, I love everything you guys share, even though I don't play TS3. I love your imagination and creativity and it's a damn shame that others can't realize that the more they harp on talented creators, the more they're just hurting themselves.
no subject
Date: 2011-03-02 02:22 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-03-02 09:27 am (UTC)Plus, wasn't it revealed at some point the some of the cuntier comments were from fellow creators?! I don't know what to think about that but regardless, I don't need that kind of abuse.
no subject
Date: 2011-03-02 10:46 pm (UTC)"Plus, wasn't it revealed at some point the some of the cuntier comments were from fellow creators?!
I just saw that a few weeks ago! I somehow missed it the first time around. I also know at some point someone tried to accuse me of doing it, which is funny because at the time I was on vacation. Not to mention I just wouldn't do it anyway.
At any rate, it's all stupid and I'm glad to be done with it. :)
no subject
Date: 2011-03-02 02:17 pm (UTC)"People who create CC are not slaves"
I totally agree with you. I'm not a big time, but this situation is just over the top ridiculous. Day by day we're losing creators, I'm losing some passions. MS3B kind of blogs are very helpful. But the trolls and rudeness ruins everything. I'm really sick of this.
This post means a lot to all of us. You guys are truly the best example for all creators at any time in all aspects. Thank you very much for everything aikea and gelydh.
no subject
Date: 2011-03-02 10:25 pm (UTC)Anyway, thank you so much. I'm really glad I snapped and posted for once, instead of just bitching back and forth with
Huge thank you!
Date: 2011-03-03 12:50 am (UTC)I'm a writer myself and a musician, so I can completely understand where you're coming from when you say it's nice to get good feedback or even a "thank you" every so often. Because, like you said, I don't HAVE to write a new chapter for my fans, and I don't HAVE to cover whatever song people request for me... I do it because I WANT to and I enjoy it. But it's still nice to get feedback that isn't, "WOW UR GAY N U SUX GO DIE IN HOLE NAO PLZ LOL." :B
So while I don't have the talent to ever make my own CC, I can feel exactly where you're coming from. So thank you, and I hope that no matter what those fuckwit trolls say over at MS3B about ANY CC that's shared there, that you continue to create. Because my game would be incredibly ugly without it and I would be a very sad little girl. :)
no subject
Date: 2011-03-03 04:03 pm (UTC)What's more, there's a sizable amount of comments that *have* proven useful- I've seen many cases where comments have alerted to defects that could crash or mess up the game, not just 'i wish this was like this'. I once asked a creator on the comments (Poppysims, I believe) if she'd be willing to do a small modification to a EA skirt. She did, almost instantly. There's also been a call for a mod recently, like the case where someone asked for a mod for their autistic child. The trolling was, thankfully, little to none on those posts, last I checked. He'll be throwing those out with the bad ones, unless he decides to moderate all the comments.
The way I see it, Joe's sort of in a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation. Perhaps, if trolled creators withdraw, the trolls will stop coming, Joe may not need to do anything that could call attention to them, and the blog will become safer to new creators. Those who stay either show that they're not going to tolerate bullying (not including simple critiques, of course).
I got your blog bookmarked; I don't want to miss anything. I'm glad I found out because otherwise I would have missed your future work.
no subject
Date: 2011-03-03 05:48 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2011-03-03 04:15 pm (UTC)I donated to Club Crimsyn when you needed support, not just because you make the most beautiful (and perfect and useful etc.) cc ever, but also because both you and Gelydh are always friendly and correct towards the community.
The problem is, the Sim3 community is quite a mean one, in my humble opinion.. I somehow know from personal experience.
BTW I think your decision is a good one, this way you won't get too many trolls flaming on you and your work in the future =)
Pity because MS3B used to be a pretty good place in the past, but, hey!
(I would like to thank you Lady Emillye for posting that awesome link, I'm checking it now and I like what I see!!)
no subject
Date: 2011-03-04 04:12 am (UTC)I may not have downloaded any of your creations (yet) but I really like looking at them and admiring your skill and creativity. The screenshots that display your creations are often stunning. You make the game look good and oh so desirable. Makes me long for a better graphics card.
Thanks for sharing xx
I'll follow your lead
Date: 2011-03-04 04:58 pm (UTC)My CC folder, for sims 2, was massive. I know most of it was yours. When your stuff appeared on the Sims 3 section-- I was over-damn-joyed. You're almost main reason I didn't crack that overpriced game disc in half for the utter disappointment Sims 3 base game was. I also read Helaene has also stopped doing CC, and THAT's upsetting too.
So FUCK those jerk@asses, and honestly fuck MS3B for not having better control over their site.
I'm sorry for your experience there. I think I will delete their link and cease following them. In fact I'm going to stop posting altogether.
I agree!!
Date: 2011-03-04 09:08 pm (UTC)I refuse to read the comments on MS3B due the the massive abuse and stupidity that fills every post. I honestly have no idea why the comments are enabled on that site, since every vicious, evil, opinionated loudmouth uses them to crush the will of creators ANONYMOUSLY. IMHO, if you're gonna be a bastard, then at least have the balls to attach your name to your post. ::sigh::
I don't have the time, patience, or skill to create anything for TS3, and I admit it. I am happy when I find CC that I like, and I am thankful for it (even if I don't always say so.)
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Date: 2011-03-05 07:33 am (UTC)I forgot to log in but my user name is Rutaceae.
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Date: 2011-03-05 09:25 pm (UTC)I mean do we not all have different shaped features, we all were created differently? Anyway, keep up the fantastic work ladies and I look forward to many more great things from you, as long as the fuckwads don't ruin it for us!
MS3B and Our Creations
Date: 2011-03-06 06:57 am (UTC)always check my favourite creators sites, yours and RD's included, apart from sites where your content might be featured so fortunately there is no danger of my missing any of your creations. Just know that I greatly appreciate your amazing contributions to the Sims community and I'm confident that my forthright attitude and comments on the subject in defense of creators speaks for itself.
Re: MS3B and Our Creations
Date: 2011-03-06 09:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-03-08 06:31 pm (UTC)I really love all of your creations and other creators too, actually I buy the sims 3 original and two expansions more but, unfortunately, all my packages and saved sims broken. I don't know why but I'm trying to fix it... so I comeback to your site for all the packages again, and give you a lot of thanks for all that you do for us.
My english is too bad, so, I hope you can understand me.
no subject
Date: 2011-03-08 06:40 pm (UTC)I hope you can figure out what's wrong with your game! It's fun enough on its own, but there are a few pieces I need to really enjoy it.
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Date: 2011-03-09 07:01 pm (UTC)The day you and Gelydh stop sharing your creations, I'll have a tiny funeral in my kitchen flower pot, forever to be a dark day in my calendar :´( Seriously, ALL my sims have something Aikeaish or Gelydhish on their body or in their home.
"You're mighty brave in cyberspace"... I gotta use that one day! :D
Much love //Matti
no subject
Date: 2011-03-10 06:13 pm (UTC)(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2011-03-10 02:33 pm (UTC)I've had the odd derogatory comment at MS3B, and maybe it's just me (it usually is) - but I find them funny... because they are nearly always said by *Anon* - who appears to be an incredibly brave little soul with fuck all else to do with their time.
This whole community has it's good and bad, and I've found the good usually outweigh the bad. A simple thankyou smashes a million nasty comments to smithereens - BIG STYLEE :) ... so thankyou - please keep doing what you do, it's unique and interesting and truly adds an element of individuality to a body's game.
no subject
Date: 2011-03-11 11:58 am (UTC)So, first of all I would like to say - THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR BRILLIANT WORK!! Your creations are ALWAYS amazing and I must say, I started to play Sims 3 again when I saw you making stuff for it. So please, don't give up on us, silly downloaders, we really-really-really love you!
Concerning TS3 community and MS3B, they really luck respect and understanding in comparison with the TS2 times and it is really noticeable (I don't mean creators). I believe it's due to the fact that TS3 attracts younger, lets say uneducated and rude generation (those damn kids!). As many mentioned above I have also never read comments on MS3B but when I did, I was so appaled and disgusted I actually tried to defend some of the items featured there, guess what I got in return? A wave of shit, certanly :)
Thank you for writing this post. Finally someone is saying this aloud. It is so wrong that people, spending their own money and free time get such responce for sharing something, that none of those assholes could make in their lifetime. And, which buffles me the most - it is completely free stuff, I say let them buy from EA Store instead.
I think you're making right decision as for not posting your work on MS3B, maybe site ownners will finally get the idea. At first, creating such site for featuring and promoting CC was a brilliant idea, but, as for me, site creators should monitor and moderate such place and not let things go wild, be actually responsible for it. Just a thought though.
Thank you for your perfect creations one more time and please don't be let down by those idiot.
Truly yours,Greyeyed-Miu.
P.S. Sorry for being anonymous, I don't have blog at the moment. And sorry for mistakes, we don't use English much in Ukraine. :)
no subject
Date: 2011-03-13 05:57 am (UTC)I just recently became aware of your stance on having your creations featured on MS3B. I truly understand and applaud your statements here. I have for a long time seen this coming and it really makes me sad. Joe and I correspond by e-mail sometimes and this has been the topic, yes it's discouraging. I think the anonymous posters that are mean post that way because they want to protect their identity when they don't really contribute nothing positive to the comment section. Sometimes I think they are jealous, petty artists in the community that don't get enough attention, or even (gasp) some suck butt, idiotic, goatse queen from the drag you down pay site. Don't need to name names, do I?
I am the poster called "B" on that blog and I am middle aged. I wondered if my being irritated by the awful comments was because of my impatience with immaturity, seems that the younger posters enjoy that type of idiocracy. Being a part of the sims community since 2005, I always enjoyed reading comments on creations as a form of information, seeing if everything works right and looks as well as the preview pictures in game. If I installed the creation and had problems, I want to give feedback to help others too. That is not the atmosphere at MS3B. I have to muddle through all the crappy comments to gleam any information that is useful to me, and when I give praise for something someone shares with the community, I am labeled a kiss-ass. Hmm... that is hilarious to me.
I am a huge fan of both of your work, Aikea and Gelydh. I am so glad you are still available and haven't quit. I am so disappointed in the community running away Heleane, I absolutely adore her and the work she shared. Oh well, I have to do things the old fashion way, go around on my own and check my favorite artist work. No problems, my bookmarks include this site too. :) See you all around.
no subject
Date: 2011-03-13 06:10 am (UTC)I'm also middle-aged (*sigh*), and I know exactly what you mean. I've been a part of this 'community' since 2004 as well. I don't remember things being this bad, and everything you've said is spot-on. (And holy shit will that woman ever quit?!)
If you even thought about defending someone (or even if you were just making a snarky, unrelated comment, as
Glad you've bookmarked us. I know I've always appreciated your comments on our work. :)
PSA - MS3B and Our Creations
Date: 2011-03-16 05:51 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-03-16 03:41 pm (UTC)People are assholes no matter where you go
Date: 2011-03-16 05:29 pm (UTC)I don't blame you guys one bit for asking to have your stuff not posted on MS3B anymore. Those of us who appreciate your work (raises hand) know where to find you guys.
Great rant and love the cartoon ;)
--Caliena