PSA - MS3B and Our Creations
Feb. 27th, 2011 06:36 pm![[personal profile]](../s.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
aikea_guinea posting in ![[community profile]](../s.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
club_crimsynThis is a bit of a PSA just to let everyone know that we’ve asked that our creations no longer be posted to My Sims 3 Blog. This is something we’ve been mulling over for several months now, and have finally decided we’ve had enough of the douchebaggery that goes on in the comments over there. It’s not so much things said about our creations (gelydh never reads the comments on our stuff, and I only very rarely), but more about what goes on in other people’s uploads. We don’t want our creations associated with that sort of environment.
People who create CC are not slaves. We all may have very different motivations for what we do, but none of us owe anything to downloaders. Quite frankly, we're disgusted by how many (not all, but many) TS3 players treat CC creators. The amount of entitlement is beyond anything we saw for TS2. It’s one thing to expect perfection from something you’re paying for, but being nitpicky assholes about free items is appallingly rude. It’s ok to say things like ‘These are pretty nice, but they’d be even better if you added some ground shadows to them.’ The person who made the ground-shadowless thing doesn’t have to do anything to their creations, but I promise you they’ll be much more likely to take your suggestion seriously if you’re not a complete fuckwit about it.
What we've seen with the release of TS3 is no-one being safe from over-the-top criticism, regardless of whether or not they charged for their creations or gave them away for free or, as is the case with Club Crimsyn, paying half out of our own pocket for the upkeep of the site - we actually lose money and haven't cared up to this point! I'm not sure just how much longer we're willing to put up with this shit. Even at TSR we could post things and get genuine feedback without having to worry about it being torn to shreds just because someone felt like being a dick that day. We aren't in any way, shape, or form advocating paysites or TSR; it just really says something when we realize that free TS3 creators are being treated far worse than pay TS2 creators ever were.
Do the people who say shit about creations because they’re bored realize the potential consequences of what they’re doing? We’ve seen more than one creator quit because of the idiocy displayed recently. Helaene, one of our favorite creators from the very earliest days of TS2, recently stopped uploading because of trolls on her site. Quite frankly, we can’t really blame her. There’s been more than one occasion where we’ve found ourselves wondering what the point of uploading anything was because it was just being nitpicked to death, and we were used to that sort of thing from when we were paid creators on TSR.
We make custom content for TS3 because we feel like things are lacking in our own games. We think, 'We could really use some new hair textures/female clothes/rabid squirrels,' and we proceed to make said thing. If we don't like how said thing is turning out, we give up and wander off to attempt to make another thing. Eventually, we do manage to finish something, and we may or may not get a weird tickle in our brains that says 'Maybe someone else would like to have this,' and if Finished Thing isn't missing any major parts, we'll toss it on here for other people to use if they want.
This may come as a surprise, but we honestly don't care one bit if you use something we make or not. Chances are, we won't ever see your game, so we flat out won't know one way or the other. Therefore, saying something like 'If you did X to this, I'd download it' is pretty pointless. Again, constructive feedback is fine, and appreciated, but even then we won't necessarily do anything more to an item once it's finished. People are always welcome to do whatever they want to things we upload (aside from the obvious no paysites thing, and no claiming you did something we did), so feel free to have at it. You can do X to thing Y til your eyes bleed if it'll make you happy.
We’re always glad when people appreciate the things we upload, and a simple 'thanks' goes a very long way in making us want to continue sharing stuff. This may sound like it contradicts the above paragraph, but even though we don't care if you don't download something we make, it's still nice to know when it's appreciated.
In closing, I was just shown this Dilbert, which seems fitting, so I now share it with you:
(Note the date. You’re not doing anything even remotely new or original.)
I realize how pointless this all is, but damn it, I’m posting it anyway even though I know it won’t change a damned thing. I’m OK with that. Because fuck you, that’s why.
gelydh never reads the comments on our stuff, and I only very rarely), but more about what goes on in other people’s uploads. We don’t want our creations associated with that sort of environment.People who create CC are not slaves. We all may have very different motivations for what we do, but none of us owe anything to downloaders. Quite frankly, we're disgusted by how many (not all, but many) TS3 players treat CC creators. The amount of entitlement is beyond anything we saw for TS2. It’s one thing to expect perfection from something you’re paying for, but being nitpicky assholes about free items is appallingly rude. It’s ok to say things like ‘These are pretty nice, but they’d be even better if you added some ground shadows to them.’ The person who made the ground-shadowless thing doesn’t have to do anything to their creations, but I promise you they’ll be much more likely to take your suggestion seriously if you’re not a complete fuckwit about it.
What we've seen with the release of TS3 is no-one being safe from over-the-top criticism, regardless of whether or not they charged for their creations or gave them away for free or, as is the case with Club Crimsyn, paying half out of our own pocket for the upkeep of the site - we actually lose money and haven't cared up to this point! I'm not sure just how much longer we're willing to put up with this shit. Even at TSR we could post things and get genuine feedback without having to worry about it being torn to shreds just because someone felt like being a dick that day. We aren't in any way, shape, or form advocating paysites or TSR; it just really says something when we realize that free TS3 creators are being treated far worse than pay TS2 creators ever were.
Do the people who say shit about creations because they’re bored realize the potential consequences of what they’re doing? We’ve seen more than one creator quit because of the idiocy displayed recently. Helaene, one of our favorite creators from the very earliest days of TS2, recently stopped uploading because of trolls on her site. Quite frankly, we can’t really blame her. There’s been more than one occasion where we’ve found ourselves wondering what the point of uploading anything was because it was just being nitpicked to death, and we were used to that sort of thing from when we were paid creators on TSR.
We make custom content for TS3 because we feel like things are lacking in our own games. We think, 'We could really use some new hair textures/female clothes/rabid squirrels,' and we proceed to make said thing. If we don't like how said thing is turning out, we give up and wander off to attempt to make another thing. Eventually, we do manage to finish something, and we may or may not get a weird tickle in our brains that says 'Maybe someone else would like to have this,' and if Finished Thing isn't missing any major parts, we'll toss it on here for other people to use if they want.
This may come as a surprise, but we honestly don't care one bit if you use something we make or not. Chances are, we won't ever see your game, so we flat out won't know one way or the other. Therefore, saying something like 'If you did X to this, I'd download it' is pretty pointless. Again, constructive feedback is fine, and appreciated, but even then we won't necessarily do anything more to an item once it's finished. People are always welcome to do whatever they want to things we upload (aside from the obvious no paysites thing, and no claiming you did something we did), so feel free to have at it. You can do X to thing Y til your eyes bleed if it'll make you happy.
We’re always glad when people appreciate the things we upload, and a simple 'thanks' goes a very long way in making us want to continue sharing stuff. This may sound like it contradicts the above paragraph, but even though we don't care if you don't download something we make, it's still nice to know when it's appreciated.
In closing, I was just shown this Dilbert, which seems fitting, so I now share it with you:
(Note the date. You’re not doing anything even remotely new or original.)
I realize how pointless this all is, but damn it, I’m posting it anyway even though I know it won’t change a damned thing. I’m OK with that. Because fuck you, that’s why.
First
Date: 2011-02-28 02:51 am (UTC)Re: First
Date: 2011-02-28 02:57 am (UTC)NEVER! We're far too bitchy to ever let anyone win. We're just sick of people who aren't used to this kind of bullshit feeling like they're alone in all of this, and were really sick of being too 'nice' to say anything to people who clearly need to reevaluate their hobbies.
And we really do appreciate the people who download and comment with legitimate problems and such! :)
Re: First
From:Re: First
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2011-03-11 06:42 am (UTC) - Expandno subject
Date: 2011-02-28 03:06 am (UTC)Your creations add so much to my game. I honestly don't know that I'd still be playing after this long if it wasn't for some of the CC people have created. I certainly wouldn't have continued with TS3 if you two weren't creating CC for it.
You're right- you CC creators owe us downloaders absolutely nothing. but we downloaders owe you CC creators all the thanks in the world for what you do.
no subject
Date: 2011-02-28 03:20 am (UTC)We've honestly had it up to here with the entitlement bullshit, and it's been very cathartic to get it out.
no subject
Date: 2011-02-28 03:16 am (UTC)I applaud you all for speaking up about this, I know many creators feel this way but are afraid or whatever to say anything, I feel like and have stated if you don't like X then don't download it, and if you download it say thanks. SIX little letters makes all the difference to a creator, I know it does to me, Heck on MTS there even a thanks button, which I smash every time I see something I like even if I don't download, just because I know at least 80% of people that downloaded something doesn't.
no subject
Date: 2011-02-28 03:28 am (UTC)" Heck on MTS there even a thanks button, which I smash every time I see something I like even if I don't download"
Me, too!
no subject
Date: 2011-02-28 04:03 am (UTC)Hopefully this will be a wake up call to people but...probably not since they won't see themselves! *sigh*
I love and appreciate everything you(you meaning you guys and other CC creators as well) do. My game wouldn't be the same. Thank you so much! I wish this was on FB so I could press 'like'! :P
no subject
Date: 2011-02-28 04:12 am (UTC)Hopefully this will be a wake up call to people but...probably not since they won't see themselves! *sigh*"
Just let me give you a huge hug for this. If I'd been subjected to half of the shit I see when I was first starting out, I'd have quit a long time ago, and I can promise you
And thank you so much. A huge part of why we won't stop sharing is because there are so many wonderful people like you who really do appreciate what we and others do, and it wouldn't be fair to let a few dumbasses ruin it for everyone else.
no subject
Date: 2011-02-28 04:10 am (UTC)Anyway, I'm sorry that this is going on in the Sims 3 community. I'm really appreciative to all of the CC creators out there. I wouldn't like the game half as much without them.
no subject
Date: 2011-02-28 04:17 am (UTC)Yes, same here. It's such a shame that the comments ruin an otherwise very useful site.
And this is mostly a case of a few bad apples ruining the bunch, but someone has to say something at some point. Damn it.
Is that Gally in your icons?!
(no subject)
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Date: 2011-02-28 04:23 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-28 04:41 am (UTC)(no subject)
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From:Just wanted to say...
Date: 2011-02-28 04:57 am (UTC)<3
Re: Just wanted to say...
Date: 2011-03-01 12:48 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-28 05:12 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-03-01 12:49 am (UTC)And thanks! This has been building for quite awhile, and it felt so damn good to get it out finally.
no subject
Date: 2011-02-28 05:13 am (UTC)Unfortunately the trolls have not only run off a few creators, they're also running off those that truly do give honest feedback. Maybe I'm old and just don't get it (I'm 32 and graduated high school the year this Dilbert was drawn), but there are other ways of fitting into the crowd than trying to one up a troll by creating another one. Everyone has to be the best by copying, right? This is where I get confused... It doesn't make sense!
I've spent a good deal of time in creative circles both online and in real life classes. Of course there is competition and one-upmanship there too, but it doesn't stop the creativity. People learn from others, get inspired, and develop styles with feedback. It's why I feel even in the TS3 community, there is a need for creators to come together if they so choose... I also say this not to put down anyone that doesn't create. Outside opinions are also valid if your intent is to help the artist improve.
I just wish those that felt entitled, don't create things for themselves, and do nothing but place intention on ruining people's days just to get a laugh for verbally abusing someone should think before speaking. Your words, no matter how light they seem to you could make or break an artist. These people don't have to upload, true. Yet they are more brave for doing so, placing their creations at the public's mercy while trolls hide behind a fake persona. That's not bravery. I don't really know what to call it.
And this is my long winded way of saying I agree. Play the game the way you want to play it. Create CC the way you want to create it... and... the rest is just the rest.
no subject
Date: 2011-02-28 05:20 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2011-02-28 05:48 am (UTC)I just have to wonder about the common courtesy of some of these internet trolls, did their parents never teach them to say please and thank you? If you don't like something, don't bag it out to the person who made it, they took their time to make something to share, and it may look like someone smeared poo all over a rather boring maxis mesh, but some kid probably spent hours doing it and thinks it is fantastic, let the lack of attention be their guiding light to let them know it sucks, or even some constructive feedback, 'maybe that would work better with a different texture' And I think the MS3B leave out the truly horrible creations. It angers me, and I've seen nasty anonymous comments hurt the feelings of people for no need at all except some twat trying to make themselves feel better by putting down another without even putting their name to it.
I'm sad that things like this even happen.
no subject
Date: 2011-03-01 12:58 am (UTC)That's what gets to me the most, I think. At least put a name to your bitching!
It makes me sad, too. It really makes me appreciate non-idiots even more.
(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2011-02-28 06:05 am (UTC)I understand you and want to show you my support, you are great creators which I have been following since the very beginning, and as far as I'm concerned have always been very generous members of this community. Yes, I said community, because many of us have been simming for a long time and in a way know each-other, and it's true that the whole thing has been degenerating, though there's some new members who show the same spirit we used to see in the good old chivalrous days of Sims 2 (not to mention the Iron Age: The Sims): Beau from b5Studio, Sarah form AweSims (big hug, she's going through rough times) and others.
All this douchebaggery as you say imho is also promoted by some sites and forums (or at least it's permitted since they probabbly don't even bother to moderate them) and as we know this is a big world and there's a lot of stupid people out there. Let's ignore them, they're not worth a second of our time.
Keep up the good work, you know how we appreciate it.
A big virtual hug.
no subject
Date: 2011-03-01 01:02 am (UTC)Thanks so much.
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Date: 2011-02-28 09:12 am (UTC)Thank you Club Crimsyn, you'll be loved by many. I'll be continuing to visit your site even if my sims game is stuffed! I'm just so addicted to CC :/
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Date: 2011-03-01 01:05 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-28 09:39 am (UTC)I really quite agree with you! There are way too many people commenting on CC just for the sake of complaining. I always try to leave feedback/thanks for the CC i like/download! I don't understand why people can't just say nice things, if not nothing at all. But i suppose for some it's more entertaining to say bad things than to say good things. :( sadly. Anyway, i'll continue to dl the CC you upload to this site :) You guys rock!
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Date: 2011-03-01 01:07 am (UTC)I guess I don't understand the mentality behind acting (?) like an idiot, and can't wrap my head around how it could be even mildly entertaining.
And thank you!
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Date: 2011-02-28 10:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-03-01 01:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-28 10:25 am (UTC)*bows down to the almighties*
You've said everything I wanted to say but couldn't. You've done the very thing I wanted to do but didn't. You guys gave me the cathartic release I couldn't give myself. You already know how I feel so I won't reiterate with some long winded speech. I just wanted to say thank you for writing this. Thank you for sticking up for every single creator who has taken an amount of shit they don't deserve.
I'm not on your level and probably won't get there anytime soon but I try to do what I can. I'm in no way perfect and neither is anything I've ever released but Oy! I'll just not understand why the personal attacking continues to go on. There's a clear and distinct line between constructive and whatever it is called that far too many do over at MS3B. I know Joe tries to help creators out by by turning off the comments when they get ridiculous but it shouldn't get that way in the first place. Its disgusting what we as human beings are willing to say to each other. How easily you can rip to shreds what little self confidence a person may have. It is stupid, it is silly but it is all true and happening and I just again want to say Thank you, thank you, thank you, for being you and doing what you do.
You're both wonderful creators and more importantly wonderful people. I appreciate you for it more than I can properly express.
no subject
Date: 2011-03-01 01:11 am (UTC)You should know both
*hugs* <--- and I'm not a huggy person
(no subject)
From:Great post!
Thank you for all your creations, they're amazing, no matter what bitches say)
BlackSweety
Re: Great post!
Date: 2011-03-01 01:12 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-28 12:31 pm (UTC)So - here is my big THANK YOU for all the goodies you've made so far and I hope you'll go on doing one's best as long as you enjoy it :)
no subject
Date: 2011-03-01 01:14 am (UTC)You're very welcome!
Evie
Date: 2011-02-28 03:31 pm (UTC)I just think it's wonderful that you posted this.
Thanks.
:)
Re: Evie
Date: 2011-02-28 06:43 pm (UTC)Re: Evie
From:Re: Evie
From:Re: Evie
From:no subject
Date: 2011-02-28 07:36 pm (UTC)Dilbert is awesome.
*crawls back in hole*
no subject
Date: 2011-03-01 01:20 am (UTC)LadyEmillye
Date: 2011-02-28 08:48 pm (UTC)I'm a big fan of the CC posted here, and stop in every now and then to see what new goodies there are.
I'd just like to say, I completely agree. The MS3B anons are atrocious in their manners and the way they speak to others. I had gotten into learning how to make CC myself, and am slowly learning more and growing as a CC creator. I do requests for those on the EA forums with what limited experience I have.
I had also asked to be included on MS3B, no harm in asking right. Well I never did get a reply, but that didn't stop me from starting and continuing my own site to house my creations.
My friend Vidkid21 on the otherhand, was added to MS3B, and had faced rude comments from the anons. It was getting to be too much, and she wanted to quit.
A mutual friend of ours started her own listing site, but it was hard getting it off the ground. So it was deleted. Joe had posted one of Vid's creations without her asking, and it was met with more rude comments from anons.
After that, I had stated on my main site's blog that I would be boycotting MS3B, because as a creator and a human being, no one should put their heart into something only for it to be continiously ripped apart by people who hide behind anonymoity.
And so Vid, who was equally disgusted, started her own listing site, and I help when I can. (This isn't meant to be a plug at all, I simply want to share this story) TS3 CC Gallery was born, It's a place for Creators to share their works in a positive setting with no anons, just good honest feedback.
Vid and I do not tolerate bumnuggets, nor would we allow such comments on our listing site. We have been tired of MS3B for a very long time and want to offer an alternative to creators.
Vid is starting to feel depressed that while we started off on a good foot, we are losing out. MS3B is a giant, and I am encouraging her that even if we hit rough patches, TS3 CC Gallery is a great idea and an alternative for CC Creators to have their CC/Mods/Sims/Lots hosted without all the BS.
If she ever gave up on it completely, I'd take it over myself, because I don't think it's fair for anyone, whether a beginner or an expert creator have their works treated little better than trash. We aren't snobby, we welcome everyone.
Anyway, I just wanted to show support and say thank you. Your creations and countless others are the reason why I wanted to learn myself.
If you ever want to check out our listing site, it's here: http://ts3ccgallery.blogspot.com/ (and again, it's not a plug, but more to say, there are better alternatives to MS3B, and it might be the wakeup call Joe needs to turn things around before he loses everyone but his anons.
LE
Re: LadyEmillye
Date: 2011-03-01 01:25 am (UTC)And for the record, we really don't have any ill feelings at all toward Joe or Brandon. It's the mindless chatter and trolling we're sick of.
Re: LadyEmillye
From:MS3B
Also hi! I'm Angeline from Facebook, thanks for the awesome high tops!
Re: MS3B
Date: 2011-03-01 01:26 am (UTC)Hi!! I'm so glad you liked those high tops! I seriously cannot believe we didn't even think about how they were missing until you requested them.
no subject
Date: 2011-02-28 09:23 pm (UTC)I rarely comment, as I usually spend too much time admiring. But after this post, I realize that perhaps you creators really do need thanks given considering all the criticism you receive.
So to all at Club Crimsyn, I'd like you to know that I absolutely love everything you have made that I have added to my game, and even that stuff I haven't, it is quite a feat.
Thank you.
no subject
Date: 2011-03-01 01:27 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-28 11:00 pm (UTC)Anyway, I went there and visited some of the entries at that site and I can understand how you both don't want your creations involved with those rude (anonymous, of course) comments. Some people should understand that creators (at least free creators, I don't really know about pay creators) make the CC mainly for themselves, for their games.
I hope you both keep creating for long time, because I love your creations. I loved them back in the times when you created for TS2 and I still think you both are genious.
no subject
Date: 2011-03-01 01:31 am (UTC)Thanks so much! I'm sure we'll keep creating for ages. :)
no subject
Date: 2011-03-01 12:21 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-03-01 01:32 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-03-01 03:30 am (UTC)I love the creations you guys have made over the years. They're staples for me and a lot of other players out there. I hope you guys continue to make the things to fit your own vision, regardless of the ample douchebaggery. There are people who will always adore you guys for making things just the way you like them.
no subject
Date: 2011-03-01 03:54 am (UTC)"There are people who will always adore you guys for making things just the way you like them."
And that's good, because honestly we don't know how to do things any other way. XD
Thanks so much.
(no subject)
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