PSA - MS3B and Our Creations
Feb. 27th, 2011 06:36 pm
aikea_guinea posting in club_crimsyn
This is a bit of a PSA just to let everyone know that we’ve asked that our creations no longer be posted to My Sims 3 Blog. This is something we’ve been mulling over for several months now, and have finally decided we’ve had enough of the douchebaggery that goes on in the comments over there. It’s not so much things said about our creations (gelydh never reads the comments on our stuff, and I only very rarely), but more about what goes on in other people’s uploads. We don’t want our creations associated with that sort of environment.
People who create CC are not slaves. We all may have very different motivations for what we do, but none of us owe anything to downloaders. Quite frankly, we're disgusted by how many (not all, but many) TS3 players treat CC creators. The amount of entitlement is beyond anything we saw for TS2. It’s one thing to expect perfection from something you’re paying for, but being nitpicky assholes about free items is appallingly rude. It’s ok to say things like ‘These are pretty nice, but they’d be even better if you added some ground shadows to them.’ The person who made the ground-shadowless thing doesn’t have to do anything to their creations, but I promise you they’ll be much more likely to take your suggestion seriously if you’re not a complete fuckwit about it.
What we've seen with the release of TS3 is no-one being safe from over-the-top criticism, regardless of whether or not they charged for their creations or gave them away for free or, as is the case with Club Crimsyn, paying half out of our own pocket for the upkeep of the site - we actually lose money and haven't cared up to this point! I'm not sure just how much longer we're willing to put up with this shit. Even at TSR we could post things and get genuine feedback without having to worry about it being torn to shreds just because someone felt like being a dick that day. We aren't in any way, shape, or form advocating paysites or TSR; it just really says something when we realize that free TS3 creators are being treated far worse than pay TS2 creators ever were.
Do the people who say shit about creations because they’re bored realize the potential consequences of what they’re doing? We’ve seen more than one creator quit because of the idiocy displayed recently. Helaene, one of our favorite creators from the very earliest days of TS2, recently stopped uploading because of trolls on her site. Quite frankly, we can’t really blame her. There’s been more than one occasion where we’ve found ourselves wondering what the point of uploading anything was because it was just being nitpicked to death, and we were used to that sort of thing from when we were paid creators on TSR.
We make custom content for TS3 because we feel like things are lacking in our own games. We think, 'We could really use some new hair textures/female clothes/rabid squirrels,' and we proceed to make said thing. If we don't like how said thing is turning out, we give up and wander off to attempt to make another thing. Eventually, we do manage to finish something, and we may or may not get a weird tickle in our brains that says 'Maybe someone else would like to have this,' and if Finished Thing isn't missing any major parts, we'll toss it on here for other people to use if they want.
This may come as a surprise, but we honestly don't care one bit if you use something we make or not. Chances are, we won't ever see your game, so we flat out won't know one way or the other. Therefore, saying something like 'If you did X to this, I'd download it' is pretty pointless. Again, constructive feedback is fine, and appreciated, but even then we won't necessarily do anything more to an item once it's finished. People are always welcome to do whatever they want to things we upload (aside from the obvious no paysites thing, and no claiming you did something we did), so feel free to have at it. You can do X to thing Y til your eyes bleed if it'll make you happy.
We’re always glad when people appreciate the things we upload, and a simple 'thanks' goes a very long way in making us want to continue sharing stuff. This may sound like it contradicts the above paragraph, but even though we don't care if you don't download something we make, it's still nice to know when it's appreciated.
In closing, I was just shown this Dilbert, which seems fitting, so I now share it with you:
(Note the date. You’re not doing anything even remotely new or original.)
I realize how pointless this all is, but damn it, I’m posting it anyway even though I know it won’t change a damned thing. I’m OK with that. Because fuck you, that’s why.
People who create CC are not slaves. We all may have very different motivations for what we do, but none of us owe anything to downloaders. Quite frankly, we're disgusted by how many (not all, but many) TS3 players treat CC creators. The amount of entitlement is beyond anything we saw for TS2. It’s one thing to expect perfection from something you’re paying for, but being nitpicky assholes about free items is appallingly rude. It’s ok to say things like ‘These are pretty nice, but they’d be even better if you added some ground shadows to them.’ The person who made the ground-shadowless thing doesn’t have to do anything to their creations, but I promise you they’ll be much more likely to take your suggestion seriously if you’re not a complete fuckwit about it.
What we've seen with the release of TS3 is no-one being safe from over-the-top criticism, regardless of whether or not they charged for their creations or gave them away for free or, as is the case with Club Crimsyn, paying half out of our own pocket for the upkeep of the site - we actually lose money and haven't cared up to this point! I'm not sure just how much longer we're willing to put up with this shit. Even at TSR we could post things and get genuine feedback without having to worry about it being torn to shreds just because someone felt like being a dick that day. We aren't in any way, shape, or form advocating paysites or TSR; it just really says something when we realize that free TS3 creators are being treated far worse than pay TS2 creators ever were.
Do the people who say shit about creations because they’re bored realize the potential consequences of what they’re doing? We’ve seen more than one creator quit because of the idiocy displayed recently. Helaene, one of our favorite creators from the very earliest days of TS2, recently stopped uploading because of trolls on her site. Quite frankly, we can’t really blame her. There’s been more than one occasion where we’ve found ourselves wondering what the point of uploading anything was because it was just being nitpicked to death, and we were used to that sort of thing from when we were paid creators on TSR.
We make custom content for TS3 because we feel like things are lacking in our own games. We think, 'We could really use some new hair textures/female clothes/rabid squirrels,' and we proceed to make said thing. If we don't like how said thing is turning out, we give up and wander off to attempt to make another thing. Eventually, we do manage to finish something, and we may or may not get a weird tickle in our brains that says 'Maybe someone else would like to have this,' and if Finished Thing isn't missing any major parts, we'll toss it on here for other people to use if they want.
This may come as a surprise, but we honestly don't care one bit if you use something we make or not. Chances are, we won't ever see your game, so we flat out won't know one way or the other. Therefore, saying something like 'If you did X to this, I'd download it' is pretty pointless. Again, constructive feedback is fine, and appreciated, but even then we won't necessarily do anything more to an item once it's finished. People are always welcome to do whatever they want to things we upload (aside from the obvious no paysites thing, and no claiming you did something we did), so feel free to have at it. You can do X to thing Y til your eyes bleed if it'll make you happy.
We’re always glad when people appreciate the things we upload, and a simple 'thanks' goes a very long way in making us want to continue sharing stuff. This may sound like it contradicts the above paragraph, but even though we don't care if you don't download something we make, it's still nice to know when it's appreciated.
In closing, I was just shown this Dilbert, which seems fitting, so I now share it with you:
(Note the date. You’re not doing anything even remotely new or original.)
I realize how pointless this all is, but damn it, I’m posting it anyway even though I know it won’t change a damned thing. I’m OK with that. Because fuck you, that’s why.
no subject
Date: 2011-02-28 09:39 am (UTC)I really quite agree with you! There are way too many people commenting on CC just for the sake of complaining. I always try to leave feedback/thanks for the CC i like/download! I don't understand why people can't just say nice things, if not nothing at all. But i suppose for some it's more entertaining to say bad things than to say good things. :( sadly. Anyway, i'll continue to dl the CC you upload to this site :) You guys rock!
no subject
Date: 2011-02-28 10:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-28 10:25 am (UTC)*bows down to the almighties*
You've said everything I wanted to say but couldn't. You've done the very thing I wanted to do but didn't. You guys gave me the cathartic release I couldn't give myself. You already know how I feel so I won't reiterate with some long winded speech. I just wanted to say thank you for writing this. Thank you for sticking up for every single creator who has taken an amount of shit they don't deserve.
I'm not on your level and probably won't get there anytime soon but I try to do what I can. I'm in no way perfect and neither is anything I've ever released but Oy! I'll just not understand why the personal attacking continues to go on. There's a clear and distinct line between constructive and whatever it is called that far too many do over at MS3B. I know Joe tries to help creators out by by turning off the comments when they get ridiculous but it shouldn't get that way in the first place. Its disgusting what we as human beings are willing to say to each other. How easily you can rip to shreds what little self confidence a person may have. It is stupid, it is silly but it is all true and happening and I just again want to say Thank you, thank you, thank you, for being you and doing what you do.
You're both wonderful creators and more importantly wonderful people. I appreciate you for it more than I can properly express.
Great post!
Date: 2011-02-28 11:52 am (UTC)Thank you for all your creations, they're amazing, no matter what bitches say)
BlackSweety
no subject
Date: 2011-02-28 12:31 pm (UTC)So - here is my big THANK YOU for all the goodies you've made so far and I hope you'll go on doing one's best as long as you enjoy it :)
Evie
Date: 2011-02-28 03:31 pm (UTC)I just think it's wonderful that you posted this.
Thanks.
:)
Re: Evie
Date: 2011-02-28 06:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-28 07:36 pm (UTC)Dilbert is awesome.
*crawls back in hole*
LadyEmillye
Date: 2011-02-28 08:48 pm (UTC)I'm a big fan of the CC posted here, and stop in every now and then to see what new goodies there are.
I'd just like to say, I completely agree. The MS3B anons are atrocious in their manners and the way they speak to others. I had gotten into learning how to make CC myself, and am slowly learning more and growing as a CC creator. I do requests for those on the EA forums with what limited experience I have.
I had also asked to be included on MS3B, no harm in asking right. Well I never did get a reply, but that didn't stop me from starting and continuing my own site to house my creations.
My friend Vidkid21 on the otherhand, was added to MS3B, and had faced rude comments from the anons. It was getting to be too much, and she wanted to quit.
A mutual friend of ours started her own listing site, but it was hard getting it off the ground. So it was deleted. Joe had posted one of Vid's creations without her asking, and it was met with more rude comments from anons.
After that, I had stated on my main site's blog that I would be boycotting MS3B, because as a creator and a human being, no one should put their heart into something only for it to be continiously ripped apart by people who hide behind anonymoity.
And so Vid, who was equally disgusted, started her own listing site, and I help when I can. (This isn't meant to be a plug at all, I simply want to share this story) TS3 CC Gallery was born, It's a place for Creators to share their works in a positive setting with no anons, just good honest feedback.
Vid and I do not tolerate bumnuggets, nor would we allow such comments on our listing site. We have been tired of MS3B for a very long time and want to offer an alternative to creators.
Vid is starting to feel depressed that while we started off on a good foot, we are losing out. MS3B is a giant, and I am encouraging her that even if we hit rough patches, TS3 CC Gallery is a great idea and an alternative for CC Creators to have their CC/Mods/Sims/Lots hosted without all the BS.
If she ever gave up on it completely, I'd take it over myself, because I don't think it's fair for anyone, whether a beginner or an expert creator have their works treated little better than trash. We aren't snobby, we welcome everyone.
Anyway, I just wanted to show support and say thank you. Your creations and countless others are the reason why I wanted to learn myself.
If you ever want to check out our listing site, it's here: http://ts3ccgallery.blogspot.com/ (and again, it's not a plug, but more to say, there are better alternatives to MS3B, and it might be the wakeup call Joe needs to turn things around before he loses everyone but his anons.
LE
MS3B
Date: 2011-02-28 09:00 pm (UTC)Also hi! I'm Angeline from Facebook, thanks for the awesome high tops!
no subject
Date: 2011-02-28 09:23 pm (UTC)I rarely comment, as I usually spend too much time admiring. But after this post, I realize that perhaps you creators really do need thanks given considering all the criticism you receive.
So to all at Club Crimsyn, I'd like you to know that I absolutely love everything you have made that I have added to my game, and even that stuff I haven't, it is quite a feat.
Thank you.
no subject
Date: 2011-02-28 11:00 pm (UTC)Anyway, I went there and visited some of the entries at that site and I can understand how you both don't want your creations involved with those rude (anonymous, of course) comments. Some people should understand that creators (at least free creators, I don't really know about pay creators) make the CC mainly for themselves, for their games.
I hope you both keep creating for long time, because I love your creations. I loved them back in the times when you created for TS2 and I still think you both are genious.
Re: First
Date: 2011-02-28 11:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-03-01 12:21 am (UTC)Re: Just wanted to say...
Date: 2011-03-01 12:48 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-03-01 12:49 am (UTC)And thanks! This has been building for quite awhile, and it felt so damn good to get it out finally.
no subject
Date: 2011-03-01 12:52 am (UTC)One-upmanship really can have some really good results, but definitely not when people are trying to out-troll or out-stupid one another. That doesn't do anyone any good, and is, in fact, quite destructive.
I completely agree with and love everything else you said. :)
no subject
Date: 2011-03-01 12:56 am (UTC)(Yay! I used to love Gunnm when I was younger! Haven't thought about it in years... I may have to go reread it.)
no subject
Date: 2011-03-01 12:58 am (UTC)That's what gets to me the most, I think. At least put a name to your bitching!
It makes me sad, too. It really makes me appreciate non-idiots even more.
no subject
Date: 2011-03-01 01:02 am (UTC)Thanks so much.
no subject
Date: 2011-03-01 01:05 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-03-01 01:07 am (UTC)I guess I don't understand the mentality behind acting (?) like an idiot, and can't wrap my head around how it could be even mildly entertaining.
And thank you!
no subject
Date: 2011-03-01 01:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-03-01 01:11 am (UTC)You should know both gelydh and myself have pretty much everything you've made for this game. It's so awesome to not feel like we have to make everything we think we want, and it's even more awesome when you make things we didn't even realize we needed (like that bitchin' food clutter you just posted!). I just want to say how glad I am you didn't quit because of the assholes on that site. (For the record, I almost went into a screaming fit over shit they were saying about you on there the other day, and it was a huge push to finally vent.)
*hugs* <--- and I'm not a huggy person
Re: Great post!
Date: 2011-03-01 01:12 am (UTC)